Just as the sponging of Sri Aurobindo started, Nirodbaran prompted to Purani to begin the talk.
NIRODBARAN: What are these newspaper cuttings you have brought?
PURANI: Cuttings from Paul Brunton.
SRI AUROBINDO: What about?
SATYENDRA: You have already seen these reports of his views on Yoga.
SRI AUROBINDO: Oh!
SATYENDRA (after a pause): He says he has plumbed the depths of Yoga. At the beginning he made some foolish exaggerations about the claims of Yoga.
SRI AUROBINDO: They were not foolish but deliberate exaggerations with plenty of imagination. He wrote with an eye to the reading public.
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SATYENDRA: He says he has given up his search for Yoga as he has plumbed its depths.
SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, he wants to include Yoga in the educational curriculum. A queer affair, this European mind!
SATYENDRA: He himself has gone in for several superficial things, magic, occult phenomena, etc. His book on Egypt has a lot of that stuff. He speaks of an Egyptian he met on the top of a hill, who prophesied the destruction of Europe.
SRI AUROBINDO: That man 1200 years old, who had an Oxford accent in his speech? There was no Oxford accent 1200 years ago. It may be Paul Brunton's own Egyptian self and hence the accent. That book on Egypt is—(Sri Aurobindo began to shake his head). All the same, he had some sincere seeking for Yoga. It was spoiled by all sorts of people. He ought to have left everything in the hands of Maharshi.
PURANI: He speaks highly of Vivekananda. He says he would have occupied the same place as Gandhi.
SRI AUROBINDO: Which place? Wardha? (Laughter)
PURANI: He means he would have had the same influence.
SRI AUROBINDO: That's a different matter. He doesn't speak of Ramakrishna?
PURANI: No, he speaks of Vivekananda.
SRI AUROBINDO: What was at work was Ramakrishna's inspiration.
SATYENDRA : The idea of starting Yoga courses is rather funny.
SRI AUROBINDO: They have started a school on Rajayoga in America. But it has nothing of Rajayoga.
NIRODBARAN: In Bombay also there are schools.
SATYENDRA : They are for Hathayoga.
SRI AUROBINDO: It was in connection with Hathayoga that I was at first puzzled. A Hathayogi was going about, lecturing that all moderns, including us, were of poor physique, with hollow cheeks. The next time I heard of him he was dead. (Laughter) He tried to be witty also: he used to say that our cheeks were like the Bay of Bengal. (Laughter)
PURANI: B has started a weekly where he has written two chapters on your life.
SRI AUROBINDO: That was a long-cherished idea of his and he wrote something in English. He also wrote about the Mother. He asked Andrews to review the book. Andrews said, "I can't review
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the book. I have known the lady." Then he wrote a book on the Ashram disparaging it and asked Arthur Moore to serialise it in The Statesman. Moore told him. he knew about the Ashram, for he had been here.
EVENING
NIRODBARAN (fomenting Sri Aurobindo's leg while he lay in the bed): Can feeling the Presence be considered being conscious of the Divine?
SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, certainly.
NIRODBARAN: Even feeling by the mind?
SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, even by the mind.
NIRODBARAN: One may feel at times the Presence without being conscious of the Divine?
SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, the mind can feel just like the other parts of the being and feeling is the beginning of being conscious. (After a pause) Why do you ask?
NIRODBARAN: Well, we were discussing what could be meant by "being conscious" and whether it was possible to express the experience in words. If a man thinks that there is a Presence around him, can it be called being conscious?
SRI AUROBINDO: Oh, thinking! Thinking is of course different from feeling. But thinking may lead to feeling.
SATYENDRA (to Nirodbaran): Why not thinking? One has to begin somewhere and, being human, one can start with the mind.
NIRODBARAN: I don't object to that or question it. My question is whether that could be called being conscious.
SRI AUROBINDO: As I said, thinking may lead to realisation. The Adwaitins begin with the mind and reach realisation through it There are many ways. There are people who can't meditate but by doing work with the right attitude they can establish the contact, and feeling this contact leads to realisation.
NIRODBARAN: But being conscious of the Presence is a realisation?
SRI AUROBINDO: Yes.
NIRODBARAN: I thought it is an experience because it has not yet been established.
SRI AUROBINDO: At least it is the beginning of realisation.
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SATYENDRA (to Nirodbaran): Why not realisation? When one identifies oneself with the Divine and then comes back to the ordinary consciousness, wouldn't you call it realisation?
SRI AUROBINDO: He means that a passing experience not yet completely established is not a realisation.
SATYENDRA: In the old Yogas they have a term called Sahaj Samadhi, "easy Samadhi", by which they mean that the Samadhi has become part of one's natural life.
SRI AUROBINDO: That is the same as the Gita's Samahita, "collected". There are also people who can by will bring down the state of Samadhi whenever they want it, while at other periods in the ordinary consciousness. That is an intermediate stage. There are others who may have experiences at the beginning and then none at all for six or seven years.
NIRODBARAN: Yes, I belong to that group of unfortunate people. (Sri Aurobindo began to laugh.)
SATYENDRA : Those experiences are a promise of future things, perhaps.
SRI AUROBINDO: Yes.
SATYENDRA (to Nirodbaran): Don't worry. If you feel you are lonely, I am with you.
NIRODBARAN: That is hardly a consolation for me. (Sri Aurobindo laughed a lot.)
SATYENDRA : No, but in ordinary life people forget their misery when they find others in the same state. They say, "There are others like me" and get some consolation.
NIRODBARAN: That is when they are out of their misery.
SRI AUROBINDO: No, in their miserable state itself they get relief. (After a little pause and smiling) Lucretius the Roman poet says somewhere, "It is sweet to sit on the shore and see people struggling in the sea." (Laughing) A Christian Father also says, "It is a great joy see people in Hell being tortured."
DR. BECHARLAL (after some time): Somebody writes that while in jail your body lifted itself from the ground during meditation. Did anyone see that?
SRI AUROBINDO: How do I know? I didn't see it myself. (Laughter)
SATYENDRA: People ask this sort of question about you. Someone asked me too and I said, "He is not a magician. He is
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just as natural as we are." Another person asked if you were living in a cellar and food was being dropped to you
SRI AUROBINDO: That is like Keshavananda. He used to live in a cellar.
NIRODBARAN (after a pause): Due to which opening does one feel the Presence?
SRI AUROBINDO: It depends on the way one feels.
Purani brought a copy of The New Statesman and Nation in which there was a review by Joad of a book of Gerald Heard.
PURANI : Nolini says that this author seems to have got some of your ideas.
SRI AUROBINDO: What does he say? I think he contributes to The Aryan Path also.
PURANI: I have gone carefully through the article. What he says is that only in man is further evolution possible.
SRI AUROBINDO: But one can arrive at that conclusion by thought. Nothing special is needed to reach it. And then?
PURANI: This evolution is to take place by a change of consciousness.
SRI AUROBINDO: What sort of change? Moral or spiritual? If it is moral, there is nothing new. Plenty of people have said that. However, you can send him a complimentary copy of The life Divine when the second volume is out.
EVENING
NIRODBARAN (while sponging Sri Aurobindo): It seems Norway and Sweden won't join with Finland against Russia.
Sri Aurobindo began to shake his head, meaning that they would not. NIRODBARAN: But they don't realise that their turn will come next. Is it to have a naval base that Russia has attacked Finland?
SRI AUROBINDO: That is only a pretext. She wants to make Finland a vassal state like Latvia and from there dominate Norway
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and Sweden. After she has done that and also gained her position in the Balkans, she will become a major power in Europe. She tried to get hold of Turkey but Turkey was too alert, and also bold enough because of the support of the English and French. The English have about a million soldiers in Asia Minor, so Turkey could be quite bold..
NIRODBARAN: Some say that Russia is occupying these Baltic countries as a check on Germany.
SRI AUROBINDO: No, that's not the reason, though the Russians know that one day they will have to come to grips with Germany. Their object is to be a major power in Europe.
NIRODBARAN (when Sri Aurobindo lay in bed): Professor Mitra has asked me to tell you that his native village is the same as yours: Konnagar.
SRI AUROBINDO: I see, but I went there only once. My village is Theatre Road, Calcutta.
NIRODBARAN: Mitra spoke of a professor at Shantiniketan who tried to dissuade him from coming here as he thought the Ashram stood for some particular creed.
SRI AUROBINDO: What creed? Didn't Mitra ask him? And didn't he tell him that we have no creed?
NIRODBARAN: Yes, he did, but the man wouldn't listen. Then this professor read Teachings of Sri Aurobindo. He was startled to discover that we have no creed, and he was very glad. (Sri Aurobindo began to laugh, much amused.)
NIRODBARAN: Mitra says that Devendranath Tagore started Shantiniketan for a spiritual purpose, and he made rules, one of which was that idol-worship wouldn't be allowed there.
SRI AUROBINDO: Then that is the place where there are creeds, not here.
NIRODBARAN : Mitra has had two visions here. In one he saw a golden light coming down and condensing into the form of the Mother.
SRI AUROBINDO: That is easy enough to understand. The golden light is the symbol of the Divine Truth, and the Mother is the incarnation of this Truth.
NIRODBARAN: The other vision was of an intense blue light striking him in the eyes.
SRI AUROBINDO: That is Krishna's light.
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Purani brought a letter from one Padmakanti whose income tax had been assessed wrongly and who had appealed against the Government. The case was on the next day.
SRI AUROBINDO: He ought to have written earlier. Not much time to save him. Where is the appeal?
PURANI: In the revenue court, perhaps.
SRI AUROBINDO: Are the officers just?
PURANI: At present yes, because of the Congress Ministry.
SRI AUROBINDO: There is no more Congress Ministry. The mind of a revenue collector is not an easy job to work on. A judge's, mind is different.
NIRODBARAN (after Sri Aurobindo's walk): Did you say Theatre Road was your village?
SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, I was born there in the house of the lawyer Manmohan Ghose. It was No. 4, I think.
NIRODBARAN: Dilip says that that brought about his contact with you. (Laughter)
PURANI: Have you read that criticism by Joad of Gerald Heard?
SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. Joad doesn't seem to be much of a thinker. He says that he had the same ideas as the author but he changed them because of' the objections of philosophical critics. If he changes his ideas because of that, his ideas are not worth much. The first business of a philosopher is to anticipate the objections and then meet them.
PURANI: He has written some good treatises on Plato and others.
SRI AUROBINDO: That means he is a good teacher, not original thinker.
PURANI: He has reviewed a book on Indian philosophy.
SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, I have seen the review. He says he can't believe in Chakras because he has no experience of them! If one doesn't believe things one has no experience of, there will be few beliefs. Indian mystics have always said that only by Yoga can you have experiences, otherwise you have to take such matters on belief.
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